Article written by Adam

60 responses to “Five Steps to Socialized Healthcare”

  1. Justin Wright

    LOL, that’s the simplest and easiest solution I have seen so far. It may just work…

  2. Paunchiness

    I like your plan. I read somewhere that someone had a theory to divide up the 700 billion and just give it to everyone who filed a tax return…that would stimulate the economy for sure.

    You’re plan is pretty good though.

  3. Adam Pieniazek

    Justin it does seem the government loves to bailout everyone but the average American so yeah, this plan has a chance!

    Thanks Paunchiness. The best plan would be to simply let the banks fail and don’t give out the $700 billion in the first place. That money does not exist and they’re just going to print it thus raising prices for everyone due to inflation.

    Still, if we have to give someone the $700 billion I’d much rather see homeowners get this money and then have them use it to pay their mortgages and keep their homes all while still helping the banks pay of their bad debts. Or take that $700 billion and build a ton of windmills and solar plants. Anything but give it to rich corporations.

    Adam Pieniazeks last blog post..Five Steps to Socialized Healthcare

  4. Ben

    “take that $700 billion and build a ton of windmills and solar plants. Anything but give it to rich corporations.”

    Who do you think makes windmills and solar panels? Rich corporations.

    This plan seems like a good way to make the economy even worse.

  5. Joseph

    Adam Pieniazek is my write-in vote!


  6. Alex

    Or just follow McCain’s plan of deregulation.

  7. Sam

    Demand it!

    Healthcare should be free at the point of need. It is a basic human right.

    Demand it!

  8. Intelitary Milligence

    If you don’t own the govt why would you want anything socialized?

  9. Sam

    The people do own the government. It’s called democracy. It’s just that the government don’t want the people to realise it.

  10. Rastlin

    You must be a democrat!

  11. Rastlin

    Health care is not a right.
    It’s a privilege.

    Most full time jobs offer it.
    Get a full time job.
    Solved. Owned!

  12. Sam

    Good health is a basic right wherever you are in the world. To reduce it down to political parties is simply ignorance. I see Rastin says that ‘most’ full time jobs offer it, what about those that don’t? What about those whose insurance refuses to pay out because of company policy or small print? Why does one have to depend upon a multimillion pound corporate business?

    I realise that those who work for big industry, especially those in the money market such as massive banks and insurance companies are safe. Those in AIG will never worry about being ill …. oh no, sorry. The banks are safe though …. oh no, sorry.

    Free healthcare for everyone at the point of demand. Only uncivilised societies would put money ahead of compassion.

    My political affiliation has nothing at all to do with anyone but me. I can tell you, quite honestly, that I am not a democrat or a republican. Although, I have to admit, if I was a democrat I’d be far from ashamed of it and would probably proclaim it from the rooftops if I so desired.

    Good health is a right. Living in a society that upholds such values should be a right.

    Privilege means ‘A special advantage or immunity or benefit not enjoyed by all’. Perhaps Orwell was right, all are equal but some are more equal than others. Tell that to a child who is born with Tricuspid Atresia or a veteran who has hit skid row.

    Demand free health care at the point of treatment.

  13. liv

    Brilliant, absolutely brilliant. Love it.

    livs last blog post..Vegetarians…. NOT!

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  15. Mike

    This is the most intelligent conversation I’ve seen on a blog in a long time. Kudos to all that have contributed! And thanks for the post, Adam. Now you’ve just got to convince about 70,000 more people to stop paying their medical debts and socialized medicine will be in! Personally, I don’t think we need it. But then, I also don’t think we need socialized banking either and I’m obviously wrong about that.

  16. Sam

    the bailout will make the government money in the end…

  17. Sam

    oh and healthcare isnt a right….you hav elife liberty and property….thats it

  18. Stephanie - Green SAHM

    Simple, I love it! Just about to come off the hideously expensive COBRA coverage from my husband’s last job and start the coverage from the new one. I won’t call it cheap, but this has made me even more aware of how much any family can struggle to pay for health insurance.

    And at that, we were still lucky to have the coverage. Imagine going completely without!

    Stephanie – Green SAHMs last blog post..Tweaking My Clothesline Usage

  19. Sam

    ‘the bailout will make the government money in the end…’

    You may be right Sam, but 1.1 trillion dollars is a helluva lot of money. The biggest danger is that capitalism could end up consuming itself. If initial greed had been kept in check, some of these problems may not be facing us now.

    The dollar has been weak for some time now. The Middle East, possibly the monetary powerhouse of the world, is preferring to trade in euros. The credit crunch appears to be emanating from the USA and the States seems to have lost the trust of the global economy.

  20. Adam Pieniazek

    Sam #1, totally agree with you that good health care is a right. It’s one of the most basic rights we can have. If we can’t admit that everyone should have good health what kind of society are we living in? Also, it’s almost scary how it seems Orwell’s vision is coming true right before our eyes. Words are all twisted around nowadays.

    Thanks Mike and you’re right this comments thread is filled with great points. Thanks everyone!

    I have to disagree with you that we don’t need it however. Perhaps you personally do not but I could easily find a good amount of people who are sick and are simply not receiving care because they cannot afford it. We cannot continue to put profit above health.

    Plus a socialized health system would decrease costs for everyone by having healthier citizens who have less sick days, are better prepared to defend our nation and consume less food and resources.

    Stephanie, COBRA is super expensive. Personally, I could not afford it for the chance that I might need it and am still without insurance today. It’s scary to think that something might go seriously wrong and I’d be effed.

    Adam Pieniazeks last blog post..Five Steps to Socialized Healthcare

  21. Anonymous

    Sam, the bailout will not make the government money! The government is doing the exact same thing that the banks did to get into this mess, giving loans to those who cannot afford them!

    These banks are on the brink of collapse and we expect them to be able to pay back $700 billion PLUS interest?

    It’s not happening, these banks will most likely go bankrupt anyway, we’re simply putting off the inevitable while also devaluing our currency and encouraging other companies to fail. Heck, why should companies even bother trying to make money anymore, just get massive enough and the government will do it for you!

  22. Ben

    Last I checked you have the right to life liberty and property. Also look at most countries that have socialized medicine, it sucks. Things that get treated in free countries dont get treated in socialist countries. The survival rate for most cancers in countries with socialized medicine is astoundingly low. why? because you have to wait for fucking ever to get treatment.
    You say you dont like big corp’s. Well the government is the biggest fucking thing on the planet. I mean not many orgs can throw around 700b like it is nothing. That because most people have to work for money. They cant just point guns and get people to give it to them. Or better yet just print it. And there is no incentive to make anything new in a socialized system. You get paid the same whether you do anything or not.

    ill think of more stuff later, time for some violent video games (murder simulators i have heard them called) lol.

  23. Mike

    Well, I’ve been lucky to have health care my whole life until last year when I was laid-off due to downsizing and the housing plummet. I’ve worked odd-jobs and have only myself to fend for, so I decided not to carry insurance until my income changes for the better. So far, I haven’t had any major medical expense (knock on wood) and I’ve only had to use a hospital once for a badly sprained knee. When they found out that I didn’t have insurance, we simply worked out a payment plan (and the invoice was cut to a small fraction). The end monetary outflow was about the same amount as if I’d paid for just less than a year of private insurance. I don’t think it’s as bad as in the past where no insurance equals no treatment. I will carry insurance in the future when I can afford it, especially when I have a family to provide for. Societies that have socialized medicine also have many problems with it. I could go on about what I’ve heard about it from friends in Canada, but I’ll wrap it up here with “the grass is always greener on the other side”. Socialism may work in an ideal world, but do we live there?

  24. Commonsense


  25. Mike

    I’ve heard you’re incumbent is a bit of a douchebag. Adam for Mayor!

  26. Ben

    I will admit that the system we have now isnt that great. But it seems ever time we give something to the government they make it worse. Also you have the right to life. Since the government doesn’t provide these rights to you (they only protect them) it stands to reason that they have no business in providing health care. You could argue they have the duty to protect your right to life (IE enforcing Hippocratic oath (do no harm)). I could even see gov. run medical facilities, but the problem is the government loves making people do things their way, so we end up with all gov run health care (monopoly=really bad). It could be like public defenders the gov provides you with one but you are free to seek other means of help.

    Also i would say our current insurance system is horrible. And I think most of it comes from people thinking they deserve “free” health care. People have far too much insurance. No one wants to pay for doctors visits. I worked at a doctors office (eye). And people didnt ever want to hand over any money, i mean amounts like $10 or $20. They would try to get insurance to cover it. Now you have gotten lots of people involved and it probably costs the system three times that in overhead.

    I think an Ideal system would be people pay out of pocket for basic treatment, doctors now advertise prices, brings them way down. Only use insurance for worth wild things like major surgery, things that are always going to be fricken expensive (best buy ratings in health care isnt that nice. And this system is somewhat in place, for things like lasik. Insurance doesn’t cover it so people know what it costs so they pay out of pocket, and that keeps prices competitive.

    And I have been up for 23hrs now so forgive me if it seems disjointed.

  27. Anonymous

    “if there is no government then there is no debt to China!”

    Sorry didnt see this before my last post.

    Is it bad that, that seems completely reasonable to me? China is super dependent on our buying cheap Chinese stuff though so they may go down with us.

  28. Matt

    I think the reason this can’t happen, there is no Federal Reserve for banks. The recent bailouts have been from the “Federal” Reserve’s pressure to have Americans save its ass. Just because a direct transfer of wealth is unconstitutional doesn’t mean our lovely government can’t do it.

  29. Matt

    1913 was the best time to dismantle The Federal Reserve.They’ve helped create the bubble based economics we’ve been running since its inception. They helped create The “Great” Depression. They helped create the current economic crisis we’re in.

    If only we all had a millionaire wife with a private jet, a half dozen homes, and a fleet of cars.

  30. Shawn

    Interesting correlation given the latest news events. First of all, I don’t agree with the current bailout. Secondly, where in the constitution does it say that health care is a right? Least of all, that the government should supply it? Here’s some food for thought, before you demand socialized health care here in America, look at Canada and Great Britain’s systems. They’re horrible. Take all of the VA hospitals and their problems, the US Government owns and operates, and multiply that by 10,000 or 100,000.

  31. Kaose

    The problem with this plan is that in some states the Medical Industry can sue you for the money you owe through “credit management” companies. I know, I’ve been sued by them twice now for non-payment of bills.

  32. Ben

    OK A bit of google-fu got me this. This is just about the UK, but they fall into the category of Gov only health care.–

  33. justatheory

    1. Stop paying medical bills.
    Hospitals stop paying doctors to save your life.
    2. Bad debt increases for hospitals and insurance companies.
    Doctors stop saving your life for free and become farmers (or whatever).
    3. Big health insurance companies fail.
    Farmer/Doctors start taking money under the table to heal the sick who can pay.
    4. Government steps in, bails them out.
    Good doctors say “no thanks I’ll stay private,” bad doctors who can’t get work otherwise work for government.
    5. Bam, socialized healthcare.
    But external, private healthcare system persists with superior services for those who can pay.

  34. Anonymous

    This made me laugh out loud so hard… I think you made my day.

  35. Shawn

    @Adam. It is a great debate that you have chosen to set up. I’m not going to get into the statistics. I can pull them to support my view as well. ( ) Statistics are just snapshots that can be manipulated at anytime. The U.S System is not perfect, this I know.
    Check out this video for starters:

    In the end we’ll just have to agree to disagree. Have a good one.

  36. Ben

    Food is essential to life, correct? Should the government provide free food? Should the government force other people to work for you?

    We tend to look at it as health care, but forget what health care is. Health care is doctors helping people. Now to provide free health care you have to have doctors, and they have to then work for free, or for the government. So socialized health care (at least how almost every other country does it) forces doctors (all of them) to work for the government. Which destroys liberty, Which goes against the purpose of government (protect the rights of the individual).

  37. Anonymous

    Ok, Google Fu may have failed me, but Stumble never will.

  38. Rastlin

    i shouldn’t have to pay your doctors bills.

  39. Ben

    Don’t even get me started on the patriot act, or FISA. Don’t poor people already get government health care? Medicare, or is it Medicaid? I get them confused. I dont agree with 90% of what the government does. So saying it is already bad isnt a good way to justify it being worse.

    “government already spends money in nearly every facet of our lives? We bat a blind eye when trillions of dollars are spent on everything but health care, but the minute health care is brought into the equation is when we want to put a stop to it?”

    Slippery slope FTW. People get used to putting up with shit, we wil get used to socialized medicine eventually as well. Thats not to say it will be better.

    As it stands health care is already the most heavily regulated, thats probably the reason it doesn’t work very well. Also the reason we spend so much money as a nation on health care is we are a bunch of lazy fat asses. Americans are in horrid physical condition, the fact that the average person lives past 60 is amazing to me.

    And I have little problem in practice with free health clinics (let the government compete on the “free” market) (as long as there are private practices), I went to one once, I would rather have just taken my chances. But like I said earlier that’s not how the government works. They WILL (like Canada) ban private health care, which is a huge curtailment of our rights. Besides the Constitution doesn’t not give the government the power to socialize health care, not that they or any one else gives a shit about the Constitution any more. But I think you pointed that out by bringing up the Patriot act.

  40. Sam

    @ Ben. I don’t think anybody is advocating free healthcare. It is understood that health does not come free. My point is that healthcare should be free at the point of delivery despite race, class, creed or gender.

    @ the debate. It is understood that the government, any government, would have to raise funds through taxes. I assume that that is a given. Governments, however, are expected to use those taxes to benefit everyone, equally. If they don’t, they can be voted OUT.

    I have seen references to the National Health Service [NHS] in the UK. The British populace regard the NHS as a treasure. Even those who choose to take out additional health cover with private companies would fight to keep the NHS.

    Every election the NHS is a big factor to be considered. Political parties have won/lost elections depending upon their manifesto proposals for the NHS. The people believe that the government is absolutely accountable for the guardianship of it and a government will suffer the consequences if it is not cared for properly. In Britain, most people look upon the systems in America with absolute horror.

    In the UK, if someone is ill, they expect to be treated with the best, by the best, with the best facilities available. Medics who work in private health care often work in the NHS too. Private healthcare companies now work even closer with the NHS and are often contracted, by the government, to take on work within the NHS to lighten the load. This is all done with the taxes paid.

    The point is, treatment is free at the point of delivery and everyone pays the same percentage according to income. Someone who has private care who collapses on the street is taken to the nearest NHS hospital and receives top quality life-saving treatment. No insurance cards are shown or asked for.

    Don’t get me wrong. Some treatments are said to too expensive and the government tries to say that such and such a drug will have to be paid for privately. These become political issues and are debated and fought over in parliament.

    There are, of course, even better free at the point of delivery systems in Europe and the British electorate wants to know why. If anyone ever tried to dismantle the NHS there would be an almighty hue and cry.

    Treatment should be free at the point of need/delivery for everyone anywhere. It is not a right that is afforded through a Constition [written or unwritten] or Bill of Rights. It is a basic human right.

    If I saw a person lying on the floor covered in blood I would not ask him/her how much he/she was going to pay me. I’d be mopping away the blood and trying to help as, I think, most people would. I believe that health care should be the same.

  41. solicitor bulgaria

    Welcome to the United Socialist America

  42. Ben

    “The U.S. system treats us after we’re sick (because it’s more profitable that way), while most other systems attempt to ensure people don’t get sick in the first place (because it’s more cost effective).”

    It is a great system, until you get sick. Unlike the US’s it is most cost effective to not treat you once you are sick (waiting lists, lower survival rates, not paying for expensive drugs or procedures). Since people are responsible for maintaining their own health it seems we should focus more on treating you once you are sick. 90% of prevention is the individual’s job (eating healthy and exercising are far easier to do than surgery on your self). I have already explained why our current system works so poorly with preventive care, and how we could fix it.

    I think it would be nice if you could sum up what exactly it is you want in a health care system. You say you don’t want private medicine gone, but your original post indicates otherwise “…until government simply owns medical industry.”

  43. Ben

    That’s better than most ideas I have heard. It seems to be similar to what we have now, just replacing the insurance companies with the government (for the most part). Having tried dealing with both, thats not too bad of a trade. But in general private companies tend to work best. Maybe an overhaul of the insurance laws would work better (see my 3rd post i think it is).

    I do disagree with the 46mill number that that is kinda irrelevant to the debate. I will also say that people are being denied health care in the same way I am being denied a Lamborghini. After seeing some ER bills, that’s a nice comparison. The problem is we have competition in health care, because of insurance being so big no one sees any prices. Its like capitalism with out a market and socialism without a central planner.
    I just generally believe in small government, and I mean small. some one once told me that no government is perfect and they are right; no government, is perfect. <<<I really hope that makes sense I know some things just dont work well written.

  44. Charles

    This has got to be the most intelligent, coherent, well thought and civilized post I think I have read yet. Anywhere.

    I worked for two multi-national companies for years and had great benefits. But, due to a string of unfortunate events, I now depend on government assistance. If it wasn’t for Medicaid, et al, I could not get the treatment I require and would more than likely be dead now. Yes, the system needs a good deal of improvement but it’s my only option at this point.

    I am taking this in to my case worker to share. Keep it up.

  45. Kim

    We Americans do not like to wait for anything! We are spoiled soft and lazy. Just what we need to do create something else we get for free. Doesn’t anyone remember the story of the little red hen. It was meant to be a lesson in life, as most of these tales are. Would we want to wait for a list and our turn to come up because someone is available to take care of removing our tumor? We have many of the best advances in healthcare in this country, due to the free enterprise system. Do you actually think that all of this is available in other countries. USA has one of the most advanced systems in the world. I would hate to see our advances undermined by a lack luster interest in advancement and a waiting list for care. Think about it.

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  47. Typegeek

    Trust me folks, nothing wrong with healthcare owned by the government. Sure there are problems with it, but I’m quite sure the average Canadian has far better healthcare access than the average American. Its the government… helping the people!

  48. ifunes

    We need tnace health insurance somehow, if you will offer free health insurance, how would you finance it to decrease health care expenditure, and and decrease US debt